John teaches in the nights, John in the evenings of the nights
John teaches in the nights
Splendor shines upon the worlds.
Who said to Jesus
To Jesus the son of Mariam?
Who said to Jesus
So that he came to the bank of the Jordan
And said to John:
“Baptize me with your baptism
By the name which you pronounce, pronounce over me
If I become your disciple
I will mention you in my written decree
If I do not become your disciple
Erase my name from your scroll”
John spoke to Jesus Christ in Jerusalem and said,
“You lied to the Jews
and you have deceived the men, the priests.
You cut the seed from men
and childbirth and pregnancy from women.
You loosed the Sabbath that Moses ordained.
In Jerusalem you lied to them with horns
and sounded tooting with a trumpet.”
Jesus Christ said to John in Jerusalem,
“If I lied to the Jews
Let flaming fire consume me.
If I deceived the men, the priests
May I die two deaths in one.
If I cut off the seed from men,
May I not pass to the great day of the end.
If I cut off childbirth and pregnancy from women,
May a judge be established in my presence.
If I loosed the Sabbath
Let flaming fire consume me.
If I lied to the Jews,
Let my path be through thistle and thorn.
If I sounded with a tooting trumpet,
Let my eyes not fall on Abatur.
You, baptize me with your baptism,
From the name that you pronounce, pronounce upon me.
If I become a disciple
I will mention myself in my written decree.
If I do not become a disciple,
Erase my name from your scroll.”
John spoke to Jesus Christ in Jerusalem, saying,
“A deaf man does not become a scribe
And a blind man does not write a letter
A desolate house is not fruitful
And a widow does not become a bride
Putrid waters are not pleasant
and a stone in oil does not get wet.”
Jesus Christ spoke to John in Jerusalem and said,
“A mute person becomes a scribe
And a deaf person writes a letter
A desolate house is fruitful
and a widow becomes a bride
Putrid waters are pleasant
and a stone in oil gets wet.”
John spoke to Jesus Christ in Jerusalem and said,
“If you can explain these things to me,
You are wise, Christ.”
Jesus Christ spoke to John in Jerusalem and said,
A mute person becomes a scribe:
the child that comes from a woman who gives birth
grows big and strong
he consecrates gifts and alms -
gifts and alms he consecrates -
and he ascends and comes to the place of light.
A deaf person writes a letter:
The son of the wicked became the son of the good
He forsook adultery and forsook theft
and believed in the Mighty Life.
A desolate house shined;
The son of might submitted,
he forsook treacheries and forsook beds
and the house was built in a day
- in a day, the house was built -
and two doors were opened,
so that if someone came down,
he came and opened the door and welcomed him,
and if someone came up,
he came and opened the door and welcomed him.
If he seeks to eat, a dish is set up in truth.
If he seeks to drink, bowls of mixed wine.
If he seeks to sleep, he spread a bed in truth.
If he wishes to go, roads of truth he treads.
- he treads roads of truth and faith -
and he rises up, he sees the place of light.
A widow who becomes a bride:
A woman who from her youth was a widow
grasped the shirt (of a man) and married the world,
which they nurtured, a son as he went yonder.
Her face will not be destroyed by her husband.
Putrid waters which are pleasant:
A prostitute who becomes a lady
goes up to town and goes down from town
and the crown is not removed from her face.
A stone gets wet in oil:
A Manichaean who was from the mountain
forsook sorceries and forsook witchcraft
and believed in the Mighty Life.
He found an orphan and an old man and an army full of widows.
You, John, baptize me with your baptism
In the name that you pronounce, pronounce upon me.
If I become a disciple,
I will mention myself in my written decree.
If I do not become a disciple,
Erase my name from your scroll.
You will be held responsible for your sin
And I will be held responsible for my sin.”
When Jesus Christ said these things,
A letter came to John from the House of Abatur:
“Baptize the deceiver in the Jordan.
Bring him down into the Jordan.
Baptize him, do not be grieved.”
He brought him back up to the shore.
Spirit took the form of a dove.
She made a cross in the Jordan
and she lifted up the waters in colors,
and said to the Jordan,
“You defile me and you defile my seven sons.”
The Jordan in which Christ the deceiver is praised
is turned into a gutter.
The communion bread which Christ the deceiver takes
is made infernal.
The communion wine which Christ the deceiver takes
is turned into a sacrifice.
The turban which Christ the deceiver takes
is made into Jewish priesthood.
The staff which Christ the deceiver takes
is made sickly.
Guard me, oh woe, guard my friend.
[The Romans are like unto a cross, which they affix to walls,
and they stand and worship a crucifix]
Guard me, my brother, from the god fashioned by a carpenter!
If a carpenter made a god,
then who made the carpenter ?
Life be praised!
Life is victorious!
Thank you very much for this translation!
But there are many differences with the translation made by G. R. S. Mead.
How do you explain that ?
Example:
“You defile me and you defile my seven sons.”
“thou sanctifiest me and thou sanctifiest my seven sons.”
Otherwise:
“G.R.S Mead informs us that “Paulus” as Lorsback has shewn, is the equivalent of a Persian word meaning “Deceiver.” It therefore may mean simply the Messiah Deceiver.”
Your opinion about this ?
Hi Madeleine! I literally have gone back and forth on this one. Yesterday I posted the translation, later yesterday I edited the post and changed it to “the false Christ” and later still I changed it back.
I am looking forward to having some conversations about this, and hopeful that there will be linguists willing to chime in.
I suspect that perhaps the meaning is “false Christ” but the pun with Paul’s name is intentional, since the Mandaeans love puns and word plays.
I may find I change what I have posted here yet again before I present the paper in San Francisco…
On the difference between defile/sanctify, that is a good example of Mandaean double entendre. The root QDSH (sorry, I can’t do diacritics on this device, or at least I don’t know how to) means “holy” to Jews and Christians, and the Mandaeans use the same root in some of the same phrases (such as Ruha d-Qudsha, “Holy Spirit”) but with exact opposite connotations. And so that makes translating the text challenging – it really needs commentary, and our hope is to be able to publish a commentary on the text, in the longer term.
Here’s a thought – what if one translated the terms as “holy” and “sanctified” – complete with scare quotes? I wonder whether that would convey the somewhat subversive relationship to the terminology of holiness used by others.
Hi James,
Excuse me, I don’t speak English (I translate by Google) so it’s hard for me to have a conversation on topics so subtle. I regret very sincerely because the subject fascinates me as much as you (and we are not many). But if you understand French, I answer you in French and you will answer me in English?
What do you think of the idea of seeing this “man of lies” the same man who is mentioned by the Dead Sea Scrolls? Basically, John the Baptist did not live far away and he had the same lifestyle that the Essenes! The “Spouter of Lies” would be Paul, the “Wicked Priest” could be Elizar/Eleazar (the son of the sadducean high priest Annas ben Seth ?) who is despised by the Mandaeans, and the “Teacher of Righteousness” would be John the Baptist …
I also find it curious that the Qumran community is called “Community of the New Covenant” and the blood of Jesus is the “Blood of the New Covenant.”
I apologize for my English,
Madeleine
Vous parlez anglais bien – il n’y a aucune raison de vous excuser comme ça!
Il existe des elements commune entre les esseniens, les mandéens et les chretiens, mais ils s’explique meilleur par un milieu commun. Le Livre de Jean était rédacté dans le age islamique, ainsi que on ne peut pas supposer un relation direct.
Merci James, et bravo pour votre français
A propos de Jean-Baptiste, si vous lisez le français dans le texte, j’ai fait une trouvaille importante: une version slave de Flavius Josèphe de “Guerre II” où Jean-Baptiste comparaît devant Hérode Archélaüs et les grands-prêtres de Jérusalem. Cela se passe en l’an 6 après Jésus-Christ et il est dit que Jean-Baptiste est un “homme”! Or un “homme”, sous la plume de Flavius Josèphe, cela veut dire un homme âgé de minimum 20 ans. Comme on sait que Hérode Archélaüs a été exilé en Gaule (Vienne près de Lyon en “France”) en l’an 6 après Jésus-Christ (suite à cela Rome administrera la Judée), cela veut dire que Jean-Baptiste, celui qui nous occupe ici, est né au plus tard en l’an 14 “avant” Jésus-Christ et, plus raisonnablement, entre 20 et 14 avant Jésus-Christ!
Je pense que cette information très importante (notamment parce que cela veut dire que Jésus aussi serait né entre 20 et 14 avant Jésus-Christ, 6 mois plus tard que Jean et pas en -7, -4 ou 0), trouve sa place sur ce topic. Voici le lien où j’ai trouvé cela:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k759096.image.f285.langFR
cordialement,
Madeleine
James
What is the spelling of the name Jesus in Mandaean Aramaic?
Sorry for the delay in replying, Stephan. It is ‘šu (if this transliteration isn’t clear, I’ll type it in a Mandaic font and share it here as an image).
The prophet Mani was 300 years after Jesus.. I hope this is a translation error (concerning the Manichaean) so these words can be taken as being actual rather than allegorical and fabricated
Sorry, but the Mandaean texts are late, and so if you are hoping to find authentic words of John the Baptist or Jesus in them, you are going to be disappointed. There is doubt about the authenticity of material in our earliest sources, and so how much more so from texts which in their present form date from the Islamic era?
Hi James,Excuse me, I don’t speak English (I translate by Google) so it’s hard for me to have a csnoeroativn on topics so subtle. I regret very sincerely because the subject fascinates me as much as you (and we are not many). But if you understand French, I answer you in French and you will answer me in English?What do you think of the idea of seeing this man of lies the same man who is mentioned by the Dead Sea Scrolls? Basically, John the Baptist did not live far away and he had the same lifestyle that the Essenes! The Spouter of Lies would be Paul, the Wicked Priest could be Elizar/Eleazar (the son of the sadducean high priest Annas ben Seth ?) who is despised by the Mandaeans, and the Teacher of Righteousness would be John the Baptist I also find it curious that the Qumran community is called Community of the New Covenant and the blood of Jesus is the Blood of the New Covenant. I apologize for my English,Madeleine
Beyond the reliability or not of the words of the Drabsha ed Yahia Yuhana about the Baptism of Jesus, one thing its a fact, the greek Mathew was translated “as they could”, this is testified by Papias of Heriapolis, a writer of the FIRST CENTURY, I mean, its a reliable testimony. He testify too, that Mathew write originally in hebrew. Many ancient hebrew scriptures were destroyed by catholic church, because they considered these “herethic”, but one transcription of the hebrew Mathew has survived, the hebrew Mathew of Issac Ben Shaprut (shem tov), there are many things that evidence that it descend of the original hebrew writed by Mathew, and its not a translation of greek Mathew. (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgYn7eT-aQA&feature=relmfu) Luke based his gospel in the greek Mathew, Mark and some gnistics, this is evidenced if you compare verse by verse these ones.
Hebrew Matthew 11:7-11: “As Yojanan’s disciples were leaving, Yahosua began to speak to the crowd about Yojanan: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swayed by the wind? If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings’ palaces. Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and MORE THEN A PROPHET. This is the one about whom it is written: “‘I will send my messenger ahead of ME, who will prepare your way before ME.’
Truly I tell you, among those born of women THERE HAS NOT RISEN ANYONE GREATER THAN YOJANAN THE INMERSER. (WITHOUT ADDITIONS) From the days of Yojanan the immerser until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it. For all the Prophets and the TORAH prophesied until Yojanan (Devarim (Deuteronomy)18: since 15). And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Eliyahu who WILL come. Whoever has ears, let them hear”.
Christians changed ME by YOU, WILL by HAS, and they added: “yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he”, its like to say “he is black but he is white”, “he is big but he is small”, it has no sense.
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